tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post6833605096378471911..comments2024-03-29T03:43:45.977-04:00Comments on Of Battered Aspect: Lie Latimer LieDave Hingsburgerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11918601687946534172noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-14648959801100869032008-03-05T13:17:00.000-05:002008-03-05T13:17:00.000-05:00I have a chronic pain condition, does that mean I ...I have a chronic pain condition, does that mean I should die too?<BR/>Another inspired writing Dave well done! I went into some of the pro-bobbylatimer sites and what I have read is just sickening!<BR/>I went to the sites because I want to find out where he is speaking so I can go cause a ruckus...which I am very good at!<BR/>MaraAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-71795114378053949432008-03-05T11:26:00.000-05:002008-03-05T11:26:00.000-05:00If Tracy was in excruciating pain, that doesn't me...If Tracy was in excruciating pain, that doesn't mean she wanted to die. Amanda Baggs, at ballastexistenz.autistics.org, has described several different forms of chronic pain she has, including *non-stop* migraines for months/years and a nerve disorder causing agonizing facial pain, and she certainly doesn't want to die.Ettinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08230821659466586897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-4502675874724429182008-03-05T02:03:00.000-05:002008-03-05T02:03:00.000-05:00When my daughter was 6 months old I was told, "if ...When my daughter was 6 months old I was told, "if you keep her she will break your heart...she will never walk, talk, or have normal thoughts...put her in an institution and have another baby." I told that doctor to go to hell...I told my husband to go to hell because he wanted me to do as the doctor recommended...and I kept her by myself and she grew, and grew and she learned to talk and walk and to have a beautiful mind full of thoughts! Today she isn't what the world calls normal (thank God), but she is so exceptional is so very many ways. She has taught me everything I know of love. How can any person kill their own child? And HOW IN THE HELL can anyone think that might be OK? Mercy killing? WHAT THE HELL??!!gracie1956https://www.blogger.com/profile/17209573738617425688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-65023345372457817992008-03-04T23:12:00.000-05:002008-03-04T23:12:00.000-05:00Latimer is the absolute worst kind of murderer as ...Latimer is the absolute worst kind of murderer as far as i'm concerned. If anyone deserves the death penalty, it's him - if i was in the US, i think i'd be printing up "Fry Latimer" t-shirts right now.<BR/><BR/>I hope one day he runs into a crip with a shotgun and nothing to lose.stevethehydrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18334234855643025449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-2614622151924362312008-03-04T20:22:00.000-05:002008-03-04T20:22:00.000-05:00Dave, it's like your friend's advice - switch mino...Dave, it's like your friend's advice - switch minorities. Ask those who are in favor of "mercy killings" to consider if it's ok to kill someone who is, let's say, gay, a diabetic, a tobacco addict, short-sighted, poor, old, or whatever. Who decides when murder becomes mercy killing? Who decides when life becomes unbearable? Some lunatics think life is not worth living if you have a different religion, a long nose, or can't affort to buy trendy clothes. Where would that line lie - and what if the powers that be decide that suddenly that person's life is deemed in that category? <BR/><BR/>Having said that, as a mother of two disabled children, i can't help but feel for parents who kill their kids. <BR/><BR/>Despite the fact that these parents comitted a despicable deed, i feel great sadness. Surely there is or was love for their kids - so how did things go so horribly wrong that parents saw their child's death as the only way out? <BR/><BR/>Surely, as a society, we have a duty to provide adequate therapy, serives, equipment and care - and a viable, independent future - for the children. Equally, we need sufficient practical, financial and emotional support and regualr and reliable respite for the parents. <BR/><BR/>Being in Australia, i don't know the details of this particular case. But we have had our own sad stories here. They all involved parents at the end of their tether, unable to cope with the emotional, finacial and practical stain of a severely disabled child in an individualistic society that no longer provides adequate services and support. <BR/><BR/>My heart breaks for those children, but equally for those parents.Heike Fabighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06856001856348587649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-66871140265357881662008-03-04T17:02:00.000-05:002008-03-04T17:02:00.000-05:00I am touched by the comments of a few contributors...I am touched by the comments of a few contributors who know what it is to have disabled children and value them for who they are. <BR/><BR/>To murder a child - any child is against the law. To premeditatedly take your child and leave her alone in a car to die of carbon monoxide poisoning is monstrous not mercy.<BR/><BR/>Shame on you Latimer who had a duty of care for your child for exulting in your shameful act.<BR/><BR/>Myr.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-44131179166438795932008-03-04T15:37:00.000-05:002008-03-04T15:37:00.000-05:00Dave,you do not walk alone. I am horrified that an...Dave,<BR/>you do not walk alone. I am horrified that anyone who could kill any person, let alone a child could be granted any understanding.<BR/>It is frightening to me....and even without knowing about the lying I was already appalled!linahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00675640977094855867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-19699207595804847912008-03-04T13:00:00.000-05:002008-03-04T13:00:00.000-05:00My husband is suffering chronic pain at the moment...My husband is suffering chronic pain at the moment with rheumatoid arthritis and it is painful to watch the agony he goes through to walk. I've imagined how ludicrous it would be to "put him out of his misery" even out of mercy. <BR/><BR/>Why is it different when the person cannot speak for themselves? Of course it is a very dangerous difference, which is precisely why we cannot afford the Robert Latimers of the world to play on the emotions of people who naively fail to follow his argument to its logical conclusion.Belindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09251920708783268740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-34528267755204281802008-03-04T11:37:00.000-05:002008-03-04T11:37:00.000-05:00Thanks Dave. I hope one day the world will see wha...Thanks Dave. <BR/>I hope one day the world will see what a liar he is but for now I will be happy with the world of Chewing the fat readers (of which there are many I am sure) knowing.<BR/>I hope we can stand up to him and knock him down. (figuratively not actually! I don't condone violence of any kind!) <BR/>I could run him over with my chair :)<BR/>Thanks again!<BR/>PatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-82575098579416678522008-03-04T11:36:00.000-05:002008-03-04T11:36:00.000-05:00The press can be dreadful at times! It's appalling...The press can be dreadful at times! It's appalling that murder can be glossed over as "mercy". <BR/><BR/>Just as bad as perpetuating outright lies is when information is grossly distorted by suppressed evidence, which allows people to easily develop hasty conclusions. <A HREF="http://qw88nb88.wordpress.com/2008/03/04/facts-arent-enough/" REL="nofollow">It’s not enough</A> to merely print random facts and to quote people. Knowing what to include, what not to include, and understanding the context is important.<BR/><BR/>andreaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-79077561874691051702008-03-04T10:55:00.000-05:002008-03-04T10:55:00.000-05:00My son and Tracy had much in common. Andrew endure...My son and Tracy had much in common. Andrew endured more than 10surgeries in less than 6 years. Shunts, g-tubes, hernias,cranial fusion, tracheatomy and bronco probings to name a few. He also shared Tracy's sense of spirit, awareness, laughter. I know when he died many thought oh thank god he is out of pain, they did not see the joy of his life. I still miss his laughter and would give anything to have it back as would his twin brother. Shame on the media and RL for not recognizing how precious all life is. Both are liars. MDNAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-74684347302235702892008-03-04T09:19:00.000-05:002008-03-04T09:19:00.000-05:00I must say I could never decide to waht extent thi...I must say I could never decide to waht extent this father must be found guilty. Was there some quality of "mercy killing" in what he has done, or not? Who can look into the depth of a person's soul?<BR/>The Russian author Dostojevki tried and succeeded, I would think, but this was fiction..Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13881820813337843551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-41590555192042700782008-03-04T05:34:00.000-05:002008-03-04T05:34:00.000-05:00Hello DaveWe met in England at the Paradigm confer...Hello Dave<BR/><BR/>We met in England at the Paradigm conference. My daughter Kylie co-chaired the second morning and gave a presentation in the afternoon.<BR/><BR/>There are a lot of layers to this kind of thing.<BR/><BR/>Our story:<BR/>When she was born she had a duodenal atresia. Without surgery she would die - slowly - of starvation. The surgeon came to see me after I had signed the consent forms for the operation and said, <BR/>"Are you sure you want me to operate? You do know she has Down's Syndrome and will live if I do?"<BR/><BR/>I was somewhat startled by this (understatement) - and without thinking said "Are you suggesting we kill her then?"<BR/><BR/>"No" he said, "We will 'let her die'"<BR/><BR/>So it appears I could have 'killed' my daughter at birth by withholding consent to a life saving operation - perfectly legally it seems.<BR/><BR/>Now she was 2 days old. I had had very little sleep for 4 days. She was born on the Friday morning and the problems hit me one after the other - then this blockage was discovered. I had just fallen asleep late on the Saturday night when they woke me for some blood to do cross matching for the operation. I saw the surgeon on the Sunday afternoon - at another hospital because the first didn't have paediatric facilities. So we had had a drive across town in snow with her in an incubator. I was alone, there was no support whatsoever. this whole scene is burned into my memory and I doubt will ever leave me. <BR/><BR/>This was not that long after the Dr Arthur had assisted a baby with Down's Syndrome who had similar issues to die. I was harrassed by the Health Visitor for months - on the grounds that small babies could 'go off' so quickly.<BR/><BR/>So having chosen life for my daughter they then suspected me of harbouring a desire to get rid of her.<BR/><BR/>Having said that - her life has not been easy - she had had 10 operations by the age of 9 - with more to come. Each one took it's toll on me and I am sure that my own disability stemmed from the stresses her problems (well actually less HER problems than other people's problems with her) caused me.<BR/><BR/>Your blog is interesting - as someone who had to use an electric wheelchair for over 20 years I can relate to much of your comments<BR/><BR/>Cheers<BR/><BR/>RosAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17239757912178654560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-9511342200606191382008-03-04T01:41:00.000-05:002008-03-04T01:41:00.000-05:00The fact that he lied about the way she died is no...The fact that he lied about the way she died is not damning in itself -- he would have had reason to lie about it even if he did kill her because her suffering was extreme and unending. It seems to me, then, that any judgment of him has to hinge on whether she was actually suffering to a great degree, and whether that was his actual motivation in killing her.<BR/><BR/>I don't know enough to make a judgment so I won't comment on that. But what's been interesting and surprising to me in reading about this case was learning that for some people it's actually irrelevant. This from another site: "We cannot condone parents murdering their children because they think their lives are too terrible. If we do, who decides what is too terrible and what is not?"<BR/><BR/>Before having children and witnessing extreme pain, I think I probably would have agreed. Now I would say that there is a line that when it's crossed you know it. I've been in excruciating pain, so I know what it is, and I have witnessed my child in excruciating pain. It was crazy-making, a horror. If it was unending -- no. I wouldn't allow it. I couldn't and retain my sanity or sense of myself as a moral human being.lijhehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09213848554493937668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-73155768134078186512008-03-03T23:19:00.000-05:002008-03-03T23:19:00.000-05:00you managed to say what all of us are thinking Dav...you managed to say what all of us are thinking Dave. Very well written.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-23620952181270587092008-03-03T22:20:00.000-05:002008-03-03T22:20:00.000-05:00Another inspired piece of writing Dave.The way in ...Another inspired piece of writing Dave.The way in which it is written,the subject matter covered, acknowledgments that reinforce decency and lift up others,and therefore the very spirit in which it is written speaks to me that honesty and being forthright can not only hurt but heal. I am pleased that words that tumble and tangle and tie up emotions for all of us, can be rearranged to diffuse,educate, and be regrouped as a call to better understanding and necessary action.Bravo Dave.From p.t.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com