tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post4835581336950365151..comments2024-03-19T07:36:33.915-04:00Comments on Of Battered Aspect: Loathing Difference (with an update)Dave Hingsburgerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11918601687946534172noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-21630583552852257592013-06-22T08:17:03.380-04:002013-06-22T08:17:03.380-04:00Hi Dave--this is the quote I referenced, found in ...Hi Dave--this is the quote I referenced, found in Newsmax and other periodicals: <br /><br />"Ambridge, who lives in New Westminster, British Columbia, said he has been overwhelmed by the public's response. He also understands why some have questioned the decision to take Miles out of his wheelchair for the shot.<br /> <br />"But that's his decision to make, not others," Don Ambridge said. "When we get home from school, the first thing he wants to do is go hang out on the couch and maybe play some Wii, maybe read a book. He wants to take a break from the chair. I think there's an easy tendency to really politicize this from different angles.<br /><br />"At the end of the day, if this helps people understand a little bit more about having that awareness, then it's a win for everyone."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-69333986421122182202013-06-22T01:58:34.504-04:002013-06-22T01:58:34.504-04:00I spent a good long time, studying the second pict...I spent a good long time, studying the second picture trying to figure out how they had managed to so subtly arrange the rest of the class nearer to the boy using the wheelchair without moving the benches. I was more than a little shocked when I realized he had been taken out of his wheelchair entirely.<br />When I first started out at my job, young and without any experience I was reminded frequently about how inappropriate it is to use someone's wheelchair as a 'prop'; it's not something to lean on or hang your purse from...it's an extension of someone's body. The idea that removing this boy from his wheelchair makes him 'fit in' better seems outrageous to me. Would they put a 'fat kid' (that was me when I was in grade school) in a girdle to 'fit in' the picture better? Or make all the kids with glasses take them off? Of course not. This should be no different. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14178246045089920743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-19273980140599102922013-06-21T17:55:52.421-04:002013-06-21T17:55:52.421-04:00Both pictures look bad for said reasons, I agree, ...Both pictures look bad for said reasons, I agree, I have some pictures very similar to the first one with me in it. (The difference was that I was not leaning in my wheelchair towards the other kids, trying to fit in, I felt so excluded in my class that I would have preferred not to be in that picture at all). In the second picture I see all kids neatly fold their hands except for the disabled boy. That makes me wonder why as well? Is he treated differently (I would not be surprised given the original picture), or can't he sit otherwise? I don't know if the second picture was an attempt to try to hide his disability, perhaps it was just easier to group them together without the bulky wheelchair. In the end I do not see my wheelchair as a part of me, and I will easily get out of it as well sometimes, when it comes to group pictures I will sometimes be in my chair and sometimes I sit somehwere else.<br /><br />Tim from The NetherlandsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-72038820519356830922013-06-21T08:49:47.541-04:002013-06-21T08:49:47.541-04:00Anon, it is, of course, Miles, choice to make. How...Anon, it is, of course, Miles, choice to make. However, until your comment, the only things I have read have been that the decision was made with input from his parents - nothing had ever been said about the boy himself. I'd read that he'd been kept out of the loop with all the uproar (inadvisable given every other kid in the class would know)and his choice had not been indicated. Could you provide a link to this quote from his dad? Secondly, the pictures were put out there for reaction ... the first was released by the family and was up for public dicussion. The second was also released and yes, we as disabled people, have a right to comment and discuss. As annoying as these voices seem to be to you.Dave Hingsburgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11918601687946534172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-81818012099047209092013-06-21T08:21:07.807-04:002013-06-21T08:21:07.807-04:00There was a statement released by Mile's fathe...There was a statement released by Mile's father that states that in the second photo Miles was seated with his class at his choice, and that it was his son's choice to make. He also states that this was the choice Miles made in previous class pictures, and that they support his right to choose. The long posts about the insidious nature of the second picture seem like a moot point. His dad acknowledges that people will politicize this choice, but that it is Mile's choice to make. Personally, I think we should respect that choice and stop using it as a talking point in the disability rights agenda. The first picture was awful. The second picture was composed to the satisfaction of Miles and apparently his family.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-14496760552812072722013-06-21T05:27:40.279-04:002013-06-21T05:27:40.279-04:00Thank you all so much, this post has generated a l...Thank you all so much, this post has generated a lot of discussion both here on the blog and in repost after repost in Facebook and in several other forums across the internet. This is what social media is for - to give us a forum to discuss, to disagree and to learn from each other's points of view. I thank you all for being respectful of all points of view. I want this always to be a safe place for people to talk, even heatedly, about important topics.Dave Hingsburgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11918601687946534172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-46375763748701239162013-06-21T03:10:45.601-04:002013-06-21T03:10:45.601-04:00Thanks for having the courage to go beyond the ...Thanks for having the courage to go beyond the 'mainstream' media approach and truly get us all thinking about the messages that both photos convey<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08520938426207131155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-85313526866882688432013-06-21T01:11:03.618-04:002013-06-21T01:11:03.618-04:00Once again a topic that is so important for discus...Once again a topic that is so important for discussion-- thank you & I agree with you completely... The only reserve I had was that I thought that perhaps Miles chose that spot, wanted to transfer to the bleachers & read that his dad had helped make that arrangement. The issue I have with that though is not that he transferred but that he wasn't given a choice initially & this "choice" was one clouded by what had just occurred and from the looks of the second picture an arrangement that no one at the school really jumped in to improve.<br />What saddens me most is that things aren't different on picture day - if anything they may be more polished... *This* is the image the school has chosen to represent this class. Our glossy print is of segregation and exclusion.<br />So when the kids are back in the classroom after all is over today, where will Miles be? When his classmates go outside for recess, or everyone lines up to pick up their lunch trays, or the group goes on a class trip to the zoo... Where will Miles be? Will he be as much a part of the group as each of the other kids or will he be set apart?<br />What would be much nicer than this retake of the picture would be a commitment of the school to invite in some advocates to train the teachers on inclusion, respect, and rights.<br />Barb, I can only speak for myself but I don't think anyone was trying to suggest that it is offensive that the boy was on the bleachers, nor that anyone would think that everyone who is a wheelchair user would feel the same way or need to feel the same way as other wheelchair users about any thing. However i have to strongly disagree with your statement that if only the second picture had been taken the boy who uses the wheelchair would be the only one "potentially" sent the wrong message. On the contrary the other kids in this class are learning how to relate to people & if the example set is that the way for this boy who uses a wheelcahair to get to be with his peers in a class picture is for his father to come to school to help and for him to give up his wheelchair which he has used for every moment of the school day otherwise in order to sit like everyone else...that would send the wrong message to the other students as well, to the father, and frankly to anyone else involved.<br />From another perspective, I was surprised to read in comments on a different site that some people were seeing being part of the bleachers as 'cool,' and thus didn't want the young man to lose out. I don't have an issue with the student transferring to the bleachers if he wished to do that, but what is being said is that he sits in the couch sometimes at home, but no mention of him out of his chair at school. So why is it that the first time needs to be for some elaborate display.<br />Several people have suggested letting the kids come up with a plan & I second that. In part that may be more meaningful for Miles but also for the other students. And it probably would result in a better solution :-)<br />Kristine, I am so sorry that someone would lack compassion & frankly be both rude and clearly wrong. It is not by far too sensitive to react to being treated unjustly. Thank you for trusting us here enough to share your stories. I learn a lot from you as I do from many other people who comment on this blog.<br />Thank you for all, Dave!<br />PurplettaPurplettanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-51305881940256499062013-06-20T20:23:07.409-04:002013-06-20T20:23:07.409-04:00Like others here I agree with ya. I felt that way...Like others here I agree with ya. I felt that way when I first saw it - and then wondered if I was being over-sensitive. Good to know I'm not alone - yet is it sad that it happened at all. I actually was thinking of forwarding this "situation" to you a bit ago Dave - perhaps fodder for lessons and speaking engagements, but then I thought you probably have way too much of this sort of cr*p already - not to mention incidents in your own life - so I didn't. I too can think of many creative solutions. I too felt taking him out of a chair and also giving him his aide was defeating the purpose. I was not only upset at the photographer - but the teacher and the teacher's aide. Hey - this young fellow has been in the class all year - have they not learned anything???? I hope only good comes out of this. I hope it doesn't mar the young boy. I hope people learn something. Inclusion doesn't mean making others like us - it means accepting them the way they are. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-45216138065507322882013-06-20T19:57:14.605-04:002013-06-20T19:57:14.605-04:00I sometimes had to stifle my inner Wolfensberger a...I sometimes had to stifle my inner Wolfensberger and just let my daughter enjoy being with her friends. She usually didn't notice these things, and though I seethed I consciously let some things go. We've had pictures both ways. The one with the child on the bench is better. If the child is happy, let it be for today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-67405690252207439592013-06-20T18:09:34.907-04:002013-06-20T18:09:34.907-04:00Beautifully worded, Dave...the original injustice ...Beautifully worded, Dave...the original injustice opened some good conversation however you bring out the important perspective around those involved's ineptitude at/disinterest in capturing a group of children from the same grade together. As a professional, the classroom teacher should haven taken some proactive leadership in preventing this child and his family from this overt exclusion. Are you serious about full inclusion in your classroom or are you are merely covering your professional ass each day and as this is the first time someone's brought up this particular oversight? Will there just be new 'procedure' written to address this or will we actually get better at instilling the idea of true inclusion in the minds of everyone.Debby2https://www.blogger.com/profile/00150010493604609819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-66485260855118431382013-06-20T16:55:47.510-04:002013-06-20T16:55:47.510-04:00I showed the first photo to my eight year old son ...I showed the first photo to my eight year old son and he thought it was terrible how the boy was being left out. But now in the second photo they have cured the problem - they have taken away the chair - after all this what was isolating him from being part of his peer group wasn't it? <br /><br />Err no. I actually get annoyed by the "maybe this is what the child wanted" argument because all that does is blame the child for the mistakes of the adults around them - and if it was what he wanted wouldn't it have been suggested the first time around. Clearly this photographer has no imagination. My son - who has severe dyspraxia so spacial awareness is not his thing - could come up with an easy solution to the first photograph. I will show him the second tomorrow and see what he thinks.Myrriennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-69369030683541781002013-06-20T16:46:40.767-04:002013-06-20T16:46:40.767-04:00The first picture is awful. We have a daughter who... The first picture is awful. We have a daughter who has cerebral palsy and is in a wheelchair. The only caveat I would add to the second picture is that we don't know if the boy was asked if he wanted to sit in his wheelchair or on the bleachers (or what his parents wishes were). We always ask our daughter where she would like to sit. Sometimes she chooses to sit in her wheelchair for class pictures and sometimes she chooses to sit in another chair or on the bleachers. We leave it up to her and the school photographer has been accommodating either way. Just because he is not sitting in his wheelchair in the second picture does not mean that the chair is a natural excluder (or should be viewed or interpreted as such) it might just be the wishes of a little boy. Our daughter likes to be out of her wheelchair whenever she can, not because she is ashamed of it, but because she likes to show off and use the motor skills her body is developing.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-57804789432005290482013-06-20T15:23:22.451-04:002013-06-20T15:23:22.451-04:00Bit of creative thinking is all that's require...Bit of creative thinking is all that's required. Where I live the print photos of all the new primary 1 classes in the local papers. for years the schools for children with intellectual disabilities were not included. after much protesting from parents they now are. this had required the photographers to get clever as these are not children who do sitting still on benches for photographs. my favourite last year was from a great school for children with severe ID and autism as they'd taken it in the ball pool in soft play so all the kids were happy & smiling. much nicer than a stuffy bench photo! helencshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00846577536467676624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-85649100696840859032013-06-20T15:12:02.587-04:002013-06-20T15:12:02.587-04:00First of all, I commend Miles' mom for speakin...First of all, I commend Miles' mom for speaking out. That took a lot of courage I bet. My son has two similar class photos, differing years with his little friend apart from his class. I've pointed this out to my husband but I've never said anything to teachers or the school principal. I do wonder if the parents are bothered by it.<br /><br />(My son is in mainstream elementary school where there is a development disability classroom. In that classroom, there is a good number of children in wheel chairs.)<br /><br />Secondly, I commend you, Dave, for writing about why NOT including Miles' chair in the second photo makes for the arguement that society still refuses to acknowledge that disability is NATURAL.<br /><br />Whether there is agreement or not about whether Miles' should be in his chair in the retake, the very idea that PEOPLE ARE TALKING about these various concerns is essential! I'm happy that you've taken on this topic.<br /><br />Personally, if the decision to sit without his chair was made by Miles and his mom, then I have absolutely no issue. Ultimately, what they have done to raise awareness is more than many of us try to do. However, natural inclusion is an important topic and it needs to be addressed.<br /><br />I wished that my son's school would have "wheelchair tutorials/tours/races" so that ALL the children would have a sense of comfort and SEE the child first. <br /><br />My niece had her class photo done at the beginning of the year (she attends the same school as my son) and the little boy in his chair was off to the side not so unlike Miles' photo, and when I asked her the boy's name, she did not know. <br /><br />The lack of PEER identity for the children in the DD room at my son's school makes me angry. I've seen it over and over for the past four years but HOW can I take on this issue if the other parents don't? <br /><br />If there ever was an opportunity to teach natural inclusion, it is now and in elementary school.<br /><br />Whether a child is in a chair, sporting genetic physical characteristics of a disability, is uncommunicative, etc., the child is actually a LIVE HUMAN BEING. <br /><br />And that is what I think the second class photo represents.<br /><br />With or without his chair, we see Miles, the boy in his class photo.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-9754771044775101032013-06-20T14:31:57.527-04:002013-06-20T14:31:57.527-04:00Whether or not this kid feels that he is a part of...Whether or not this kid feels that he is a part of the class or needs to ditch his wheelchair to be included will not rest on how these two pictures are taken. It will happen on how he is treated in the classroom and in his life. His wheelchair may be an extension of him because he doesn't get around without it, but it isn't a part of him or what makes him who he is. As a mom, if the photographer had asked me if my child needed to be in the wheelchair for the picture, I think I would be offended and say no, not because I'm ashamed of the wheelchair or my child's need for it, but because the question would imply that my child needs the wheelchair even in a picture to be who he is, and if I were to say yes, would my child really thank me for forcing the wheelchair into the picture?<br />Kimberlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452366492486662984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-70651680245593384282013-06-20T13:46:04.922-04:002013-06-20T13:46:04.922-04:00I couldn't disagree with you more. There is SO...I couldn't disagree with you more. There is SO much more to this kid and his life than his means of mobility. He's a kid, not some odd little object propped up in a chair. For God's sake, let him feel like part of the class for the two minutes it took to get the second photo. If all we are is our level of ability to walk, why bother living? Yay for this kid and his class.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-40589022725026350982013-06-20T13:27:37.082-04:002013-06-20T13:27:37.082-04:00I agree that this sends a destructive message to t...I agree that this sends a destructive message to the public who we are trying to educate. If the first picture had not been taken the boy would be the only person potentially sent the wrong message however in the article he seems quite happy about joining his friends on the bench.It's in the interpretation and the messages you are raised with around disability.<br /><br />I also agree that sometimes we take things a bit far. Many people who use wheelchairs transfer out of them for various reasons, I don't find it offensive that a young boy who is accustomed to speding time both in and out of a wheelchair sit with his friends/classmates for a class photo. I have two questions: 1. what is the true feeling of the boy about sitting on the bench and 2. what did his Grade JK-1 class pictures look like?<br /><br />We need to keep in mind that people who use wheelchairs are no different than us in the fact that we all share differing opinions about who we are, how we are identified etc. We are all human and while I respect your hard work in advocating for people in general Dave I think it is important that we not make any assumptions that all people who use wheelchairs would or should be offended.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11380135537610400733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-3954031372755709722013-06-20T12:53:45.627-04:002013-06-20T12:53:45.627-04:00i totally agree. Except to me, the first picture i...i totally agree. Except to me, the first picture is not worse, it has some value over the second pic because it’s honest. An honest representation of how that community dealt with difference. Honest representations offer the opportunity to take a fresh look and think about it. The first pic is where it’s at and the departure point for change. The second pic is stifling change by presenting a supposed improvement and ‘it’s ok now’. I’d want the adults involved to have the first pic in their faces every day, maybe on the wall in the staff room, with a caption that captures the comment and offense, as a catalyst for change.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-27112930062221310042013-06-20T12:43:28.855-04:002013-06-20T12:43:28.855-04:00Thank you, Andrea, and Stillfinditsohardto, it alw...Thank you, Andrea, and Stillfinditsohardto, it always means a lot to be heard and validated a bit. :)<br /><br />And thank you, Dave, for your support, and creating a community here that's such a "safe space." I feel like my daily visits here have helped me to develop my own courage and compassion in facing the world, and I can't think of any other space on the internet that's so directly affected my character!<br /><br />One more story: When I was 17, I went and had the traditional senior portraits taken. It was a fun day of changing outfits and posing in different locations. When we got the photos back, I was confused at why almost every shot was a close-up; you couldn't even tell when I'd changed from jeans to a skirt or whatever. I didn't get it until we picket out the photo that would appear in the yearbook, and the photographer offered, "We could photoshop out this bit of the chair that's showing here, so you can't see it." Oh. Now I got it. Every photo had been strategically taken to minimize/hide my chair. I refused the photoshop editing. And one of my biggest regrets is that I didn't refuse the entire package and demand our money back. (Sometimes I want to go back in time, and give that shy kid a backbone!) It still bothers me every time I visit my parents, and see those pictures on display.<br /><br />Even if the kid is too young to read much into the class photo now, it's going to stick with him. The message, however subtle and well-intended, is that his chair is a problem. That bothers me.<br /><br />I'm also guessing that this photo was the first time his classmates ever saw him out of the chair. He's clinging to the bench for balance. An extra teacher has appeared next to him, ready to catch him if he falls. It doesn't strike me as natural. They should have just put the kids in charge. When I was in 2nd grade, kids had no problem adapting. They'd frustrate their parents, insisting their birthday parties had to be in accessible locations. We'd make up rules on the playground to adapt our games so everyone could play. We didn't need any help from adults. Kids thought my wheelchair was cool.<br /><br />All of that said, I do agree with Heidi that there's value sometimes in removing the equipment blockade. If the child is comfortable with it, and there's a time in the school day where it's appropriate, socializing in a way that encourages physical contact has definite value. But I'm sticking to my argument that this has never happened in the boy's classroom before. And it wasn't about socialization, it was about appearances.Kristinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10853148802460437796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-52027965582904179462013-06-20T11:39:52.243-04:002013-06-20T11:39:52.243-04:00Maybe he just wanted to sit on the bench with his ...Maybe he just wanted to sit on the bench with his friends. Maybe just for the moment he wanted to be just like everyone else. Yes, his disability is part of who he is, but it isn't all that he is.<br /><br />Maybe, just maybe, we are reading much too much into this. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-6345954214472627732013-06-20T11:26:20.479-04:002013-06-20T11:26:20.479-04:00Ohmygosh!!! I hadn't seen the 2nd one, and TO...Ohmygosh!!! I hadn't seen the 2nd one, and TOTALLY agree with you!! When I saw that article and read that they'd re-taken the photo, I was worried that they may do that. That's really disturbing. I can't understand why they couldn't just move everyone over to the left side of the platform, and have him in his wheelchair in front of the teacher standing there?? What is this teaching people?Beccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963099760885760598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-41074062590175054732013-06-20T10:23:41.456-04:002013-06-20T10:23:41.456-04:00Like stillfindsitsohard ... I was a parent volunte...Like stillfindsitsohard ... I was a parent volunteer at some of these (not this in particular!) photo sessions and I just made sure that we re-arranged things so the student using a wheelchair was in the middle or something like that. I don't exactly remember now, but I think I asked the student first (do you mind if we rearrange things so you can be closer to the middle?) and she said yes, and then all the kids helped and came up with ideas and then bingo... just a class photo. You would think school photographers would be used to it by now! And you'd think assistants and teachers would be used to speaking out by now or just modelling and mirroring inclusion. But we ain't there yet (sigh) so we just gotta keep plugging. No? <br /><br />About the second picture? Not so sure. What did mom & student think? Nanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10375461078977866753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-27795476820640575052013-06-20T09:42:13.846-04:002013-06-20T09:42:13.846-04:00I am a photographer and it would be dead easy to c...I am a photographer and it would be dead easy to construct a group photo around the wheelchair. You don't have to have it in the center, which would make it look like he was the prime focus of the image, but nor do you need it on the end, as an afterthought. <br /><br />Front row, off centre. Perfect. Part of the group without making a song and dance about it.<br /><br />Kim Ayreshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02656677501116622953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35743239.post-55059497078923667262013-06-20T09:17:26.334-04:002013-06-20T09:17:26.334-04:00Thank you for expressing exactly what I was thinki...Thank you for expressing exactly what I was thinking when I saw the second picture...Amyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08502625442668400560noreply@blogger.com